Ep #199: Your #1 Trap of Growing a Business

Let’s talk about the number one trap that you may fall into when it comes to running your business based on your personality type.

Last week, Naomi Gora joined the show to walk us through the five personality type categories that she uses as a brand guru to help her clients not only brand their businesses, but also to help them understand how best to run their businesses. Taking the four-letter codes from the Myers-Briggs test, she groups them into five different categories of business owners.

Today Naomi is back for part two of the conversation, where she will be sharing the number one trap that we might fall into when growing our businesses—based on our personality types. (Remember, if you want to take the Myers-Briggs assessment, you can visit her website Brand Whisperers.) Make sure to tune in!

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Coming Up:

Next episode is #200, where we will be having a celebration for making it to 200 episodes!

Download The Full Episode Transcript

Read the Transcript Below:

Stacey Brown Randall:          Let’s talk about the number one trap you may fall into when it comes to running your business based on your personality type.

You are not just another hustling salesperson. You are the expert, the
resource, the valuable partner for your clients, and how you grow your
business should reflect how your clients see you.

Welcome to the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast. We generate
referrals without asking, build positive client experiences, and help
you take control of your business.

Here’s your charmingly sarcastic host, Stacey Brown Randall.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Hey there, and welcome to episode 199 of the Roadmap to Grow your Business Podcast. I’m your host, Stacey Brown Randall. Woohoo. 199. So very exciting. Yeah. So exciting. I cannot wait to hit 200 next week, but we have a pretty important episode today before we can jump ahead to next week. So let’s dive right in.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So we are in the middle of a two-part series. Last week, Naomi was with us and she was walking us through the five personality type categories that she uses as a brand guru to help people not only brand their business in a way that’s going to work for them to market and use the marketing channels, but also to understand how best to run their business. So she takes the four letter codes of the Myers Briggs, and then groups folks into five personality type categories of business owners. And then, she helps them understand how best to not only run and manage and grow their business, but also marketing from that perspective as well.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So we have a pretty good conversation there. So she’s going to dive into the number one trap that we fall into when we’re growing our business based on our personality types. So if you listen to last week’s episode, then you probably have a good understanding of how this works and how her system and theology works, the CAR. You’ll probably remember her talking about the CAR, and so that model. And then, exactly what it means in terms of how best to run your business. And then, this week we’re diving into the trap you may fall into when it comes to running your business.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So I’m excited to bring her back. Remember if you want to take the Myers Briggs assessment, you can go to her website at brandwhisperers.com.au. Because, of course, she is in Australia, which you’ll pick up on pretty quickly because of her fabulous accent. So brandwhisperers.com.au. And of course, make sure you take that assessment so you can understand what is your letter code, if you don’t remember it the last time you took it so that you can really listen for when she starts talking about your personality. All right, let’s dive in.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Naomi, I’m so excited to have you back for round two. And I’m so grateful that you were willing to come back for round two. Thank you for diving in with us on, I think, which is going to be a great follow up episode to the episode we did last week, which is episode 198. I’m excited for our follow up this week. So before we dive in, let’s do a quick… We’re not going to recap the entire episode from last week. If people are interested, then you need to go listen to it. But I do think as we get ready to dive into these number one traps that people fall into based on their personality types, we do need to hit a high level of what are those five personality type categories that you were teaching us about last week and what we need to know about them so we can dive into the next piece.

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely, Stacey. Thanks for having me back again. Yeah. So as we covered last week, working with businesses and personality types, I’ve come up with five categories to put them in. So first of all, we’ve got the corporates. Now these are the people that you would traditionally see a lot of in the business world. They run businesses really efficiently and effectively. So when you’re coming into the business world and you are trying to learn about how to run a business, these are the types that are you’ll most often see or predominantly see, because that they’re very visible and there’s lots of them.

Naomi Gora:       The second category is the individualists. These people have, they’re sort of the opposite types of the corporates in that they want to run their business their way. They have really strong ideals about the way that their businesses should run. Then, there’s the traditionalists. I often see these people in family owned businesses, family and tradition is really important to them, community and networks. So their businesses often center around those areas.

Naomi Gora:       Then, we’ve got the change makers. They’re the people that are quite visionary and are really out to make a really big change in the world for either culture or individuals. And finally, we have the life seekers. These are the people that they usually move pretty fast. They want to just squeeze every experience out of life and they’re really vibrant, alive, and they sort of want their businesses to be that way as well.

Stacey Brown Randall:          And so, for those of you who may have been like, okay, I got that overview. Now I’ve got to go back and listen to last week’s episode to really kind of dive in, what I want you to keep in mind about what Naomi is talking about, because, yes, you should go back and listen to last week’s episode, because she talks about all these different ways of like where did the 16 personalities come from? And they’ve fall into these five kind of categories that we’re now talking about that she uses though as a brand agency.

Stacey Brown Randall:          And she uses them, kind of using your personality to kind of help you figure out how likely you are best to run your business, but then to form your marketing around it, like the marketing channels you’re using. So we had a very interest conversation. Now I can’t remember if this is when we were recording last time or not, but we had an interesting conversation about, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, tell me I have to learn TikTok dances or clubhouse.” And I’m like, “Not another marketing channel.”

Stacey Brown Randall:          I don’t know how that speaks necessarily to my personality type, but it’s really interesting how I love that you have this overarching framework of how business owners by their personality should consider who they are in terms of then how they decide to build and grow and run their businesses. And then, you come alongside to help them do that from a branding perspective as well, particularly as it comes down to marketing channels.

Stacey Brown Randall:          But what I also love is because you spend so much time with all these people, all these different types of people, hanging out with all the peoples, right? That you also recognized, and that’s what we’re going to focus on for today’s episode is that you also recognize that each personality trap, so each personality type has this one trap that each of them can kind of fall into when they’re growing their business. That obviously is usually I’m going to assume runs counter to how they should be doing it without recognizing that what you’re doing is why you’re miserable. So you should stop.

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Right. You should stop doing that and stop being miserable and run your business a different way and you’ll love it. So what Naomi’s going to do now, she’s going to kind of go through these five types, again, based on the number one track that each of these personality types falls into when growing their business. And we’re going to have a nice little discussion around it and try to keep that discussion off of me and my personality type, but my business type. Okay. So let’s start with the corporates.

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely. Okay. We’ll start. That’s a really good place to start, because as I said, there’s a lot of these corporate types in business, like out of the proportion of personality types in business, you do see these a lot. So these corporate types, if you are familiar with the four letter codes, four letter Myers Briggs codes. These are the ENTJs and the ESTJs. That four letter code actually unlocks the cognitive functions that you prefer to use.

Naomi Gora:       We spoke a little bit about this last week. So I use a framework called the CAR model and each personality type has four different cognitive functions in different seats of the CAR. Like if you imagine your brain is a four-person car with a driver, co-pilot, a 10-year-old in the back and a 3-year-old in the back, depending on the cognitive functions you use, you’ll find different things easier, different things harder. You’ll have a flow state in some things and some things that you will be your blind spots.

Naomi Gora:       So what the corporates, the ENTJs and the ESTJs have in common is the cognitive function that that is their driver function or their flow state is what we call effectiveness. And this is all about resource management. So these people are just adept at managing time, money, energy, and they’re brilliant achievers. They know how to get things done. They can set a to-do list and have it done by lunchtime, while the rest of us are still sort of scratching our heads going, “What was I going to do today?”

Naomi Gora:       They’re phenomenally hardworking. They know how to delegate. They’re natural leaders. So it’s not unsurprising that they navigate towards the business world. But the thing is when the rest of us different personality types come into the business world and see that this is the way, is the successful way of running business and we try and mimic that or copy that, it doesn’t quite work out that way. And so, we just go, “Oh, well, we’re bad at business and we shouldn’t do it.” But that’s not necessarily the case.

Naomi Gora:       So sticking back to the one thing that will trip them up or the traps that they get into. For the corporates, the ENTJs and the ESTJs, often it can either be sort of micromanaging teams and not letting their teams have the autonomy to get things done or it can… You know when you see big companies that have forgotten the people, they’re all about systems and people become numbers. That is the downside of the ENTJ, ESTJ businesses.

Naomi Gora:       So for those two businesses, the idea is to keep that culture happening, keep remembering the people in your teams and as customers. So having cultural ambassadors, seeing how you can personalize your services so people don’t feel so much like numbers. So you are really connecting to the humans in your team and your community. And we’re seeing this now in big corporates, you know how big corporates now are actually employing smaller influencers, because the smaller influencers around the world have a real connection to their audiences that these bigger corporates can’t replicate. So they’re asking these other smaller influencers to help them keep in touch with the humanity of their audiences.

Stacey Brown Randall:          And I think it’s so interesting of how many times somebody decides they’re going to start a business, and then they start mimicking the other businesses that they see that are typically at a totally different stage than they are.

Naomi Gora:       Yeah. A different stage, a different industry, a different personality type, and actually, you raise a really good point there. If there was one thing, that one trap that any of these types could get into, that would be the one trap is going in, and when you are learning something new, it’s totally natural to want to look at what other people are doing and sort of getting an advantage or leverage from that. But it’s always about bringing it back to your own self-awareness. So this framework that I use helps you understand. Now, is this going to work for me or is it just going to make me fall flat on my face and make me want to exit the business world straight away?

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yeah. Because running a business is hard enough than actually realizing that maybe you’ve set it up and we’re running it completely wrong. We need to go into this with what we can do. And I would say the longer somebody is in business though, would you say that, I don’t know. And maybe this is just with your experience with the clients that you work with, but that eventually, if they don’t know this about themselves, right? They don’t know which, Myers, Briggs, four letter code they have or which of these five personality types they kind of fall into. They never really know that, but they are, they eventually become successful and they love their business.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So those two dynamics. They’re successful and they’re loving their business that more than likely they’ve adapted to how they should be running their business at some point. I think about the difference between how I started and ran my first business, which says a lot about it, because it failed after four years. Everything you need to know, but the idea there is that how different I ran that business to how differently I run this business. And even how differently I run this business than how I ran it 10 years ago when I was starting it, when I was 10 years younger.

Stacey Brown Randall:          I think some of this is the personality piece and the figuring out what’s going to make me happy and what’s going to make me want to do this every day and where do I live? I call it my zone of genius. Where do I live in that space? Right?

Naomi Gora:       Yes.

Stacey Brown Randall:          As much as possible, because that’s where I’m happiest, while knowing I have other things I’ve got to do, but I can have support teams around me as well. And I think some of that comes with age, right? Some of that confidence comes with age. Some of that confidence comes with experience, but I think the other piece is that ability as we get older, we also get to know ourselves a little bit better. We’re not as scared of all the other parts of ourselves.

Stacey Brown Randall:          We think it helps us. Right? I think it helps us to be like, “I don’t have to run this business like a corporate. I can go run it like the life seeker that I ultimately am.”

Naomi Gora:       Yes. That’s exactly it. And that’s one of the reasons that I run my business. It’s the thing that I’m passionate about, because there’s so many… If we’re talking about the longer you run your business, the more that you understand these things. And I think that’s often through trial and error. We experience what we like and what we don’t like and we change course. But then, the failure rate for small businesses is so high, because sometimes either people give up.

Naomi Gora:       They go, “Well, I tried it and it didn’t work for me,” or they didn’t have the funds to keep going for long enough to figure that out. And that’s what I’m hoping that my business can help people do is like shorten that and get to that point a little bit quicker so they can thrive as quickly as possible.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yeah. I love that. Okay. So then, let’s move on to the next group and talk about the number one trap they have.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. So the individualists. So these business owners, so if we start with two of them. Firstly, the INFP, who I call the torch bearer. They really, they fight for a cause. So they’re generally quite unassuming. They accept everybody for who they are, but to really get up and to make a business work. They sort of need to have a fire in their belly so to speak to make it happen. And they often have a big dream, but they can lack the concrete steps to make that happen.

Naomi Gora:       So with an INFP, that effectiveness function that we said that there was the driver for the corporates, it’s their three-year-old. So in that CAR model, it’s the three-year-old or the little backseat function that isn’t as sophisticated as their other functions. So if they try and run their business, even though they’ve got this big dream, if they try and run it like one of the corporates, they will burn out really quickly. So for the INFP then, what they need to remember is to have support around building their business and really decide if they want to run a big business or if they’re really happy just being a sole trader.

Naomi Gora:       And if they do want to have a big business is having people or support to help them manage those logistics or have a really simple business system. So they offer one product. They offer it really well at a really high rate, become an expert in their field. And then, the systems around running their business are a lot simpler.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, simple. It’s my favorite word. It’s not the word we always think about when we think about running a business, but, oh my gosh. If you could just look at some things inside your business and then figure out how to make them simpler, guarantee you’ll be happier.

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely.

Stacey Brown Randall:          It’s impossible for you not to be happy. Just did one or two processes, one or two problem children, clients, and just make it simpler. Okay. So what’s the other group that fits into them? So you said INSP. What’s-

Naomi Gora:       INFP, and then there’s ISFP, who also have effectiveness as their three-year-old. So these people are very experiential. You often see them as say, actors, musicians, chefs. They sometimes love nature. They love being in the moment and creating an experience for people. And sometimes they find it really hard to communicate things in words. So they create these experiences and offer them as services or products to people for them to really understand the complexities of human emotions, I guess.

Naomi Gora:       And so, what I see in this type is that they change a lot. It’s almost like when you have a chef and they have a menu and they’re like, “Okay. We’ve run that menu. It’s time to get onto the next one,” or a musician that goes, “Okay, I’m working on this album and it’s out and gone.” When it comes to businesses and running service and products, that can be difficult. So often I see ISFPs set up a business, and then they put all this time and effort into setting up the systems and the offering, and then they go, “Oh, no, that’s not the right thing to do anymore. I want to do something different.”

Naomi Gora:       So before they’ve made money with it, they’re done and they’re onto the next thing. So what I suggest that for them to do is have a really simple brand and a really simple system that they create, that they can sort of exchange every time they want to change. So say it’s someone that runs an event, they’ve got a system to run their event, and then they can take it to different locations or change out the speakers. So they’re setting up a system, but it’s like a really flexible interchangeable system so it can run with them as they change what they want to look at.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Or let’s just say it, as they get bored.

Naomi Gora:       As they get bored. Yes.

Stacey Brown Randall:          And they want something else.

Naomi Gora:       Yeah.

Stacey Brown Randall:          I mean, hey, that’s the spice of life. I totally get it. We need those folks in the world. Except when my chef starts removing my favorite items from the menu, because-

Naomi Gora:       We hate that.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yes. And they’re like, “Oh, we’ve got a fresh spring menu.” And I’m like, “I want the winter one back. I would like, whatever, that beat salad, please. Whatever it was.” Right?

Naomi Gora:       And they’re like, “No. That’s dead now. No. I’m not feeling aligned to that anymore so I can’t bring it back.” Even though everybody wants it. And that’s sort of where the individualists can get a bit stubborn. They’re like, “I don’t care if it’s what everything, everybody wants.” I’m just like, “I’m not feeling it, and so it’s not happening.”

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh my god. I think about one of my favorite restaurants to go to in Charlotte, there is one appetizer that they don’t offer anymore and one salad that my husband loves and we just ask for it and they’re like, “Yeah. We’ve got the ingredients. We can make it.” We’re like, “Thank you.” They’re—

Naomi Gora:       I’ll do that for you. That’s a beautiful local business.

Stacey Brown Randall:          It is totally. Yes. Okay. So let’s move on. Who’s next, traditionalist?

Naomi Gora:       Okay. So next we have the INTP and the ISTP. So INTP are the true, we call them the truth seekers. And often they’re businesses, they’ve come into business, they want something to be technically superior. So they’ll often see products or services out there that aren’t accurate or aren’t correct. And they’re like, “I want to fix this. I want to… These people are being misled. I want to make the best product possible.”

Naomi Gora:       And they go out and they actually do it. And if you speak to an INTP, they will have a depth of knowledge and facts about whatever their product or services, but often they can shy away from like the people side of business. What I’ve seen is letting their brand carry that weight of the people side of things. And having, I think we spoke about this last week, is having systems and processes set up to automate that side of the business. So they could run some ads, have them coming through to an email system and getting it set up that way. So they’re not the people person around their business. They just communicate this really technically amazing product.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Okay. And that was INTP. And what was the other one?

Naomi Gora:       INTP. So the thing I see about them is them feeling like they have to be the face of their business, because that’s what the business sort of thing says. It’s like, “You’ve got to tell your story. You’ve got to be the face.” And they’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to be the face.” It’s like let your technical genius be the face.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yeah. That’s awesome. Okay. And so, what were the two that were in that group?

Naomi Gora:       So then, there’s the ISTP. So they’re very similar. They both lead with a cognitive function called accuracy, which is all about being accurate. INTPs are more in their heads accurate, whereas is ISTPs are about accuracy in a sensory world. So they can often be amazing athletes, mechanics. They can be like Bear Grylls. I don’t 100% know if he’s an ISTP, but I would guess like in the real world, experiencing things in the moment, and they’re really technically proficient. Also, like James Bond, cool, calm, collected, but could turn around and shoot 50 people accurately at once. And you’re like, “How do they even do that?”

Stacey Brown Randall:          Right. With bullets whizzing by their head.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. Yes. And then, they’re just still completely calm. But what I see ISTP is doing in business is really ignoring that people side of their business again. And it’s not, you don’t see James Bond going around hugging the people after they’ve been shot. He’s saving them. And then, other people deal with the looking after the people afterwards.

Naomi Gora:       So that’s what the ISTPs. And so, ISTPs can often be like, if they’re not running businesses, they can often be involved in emergency services, that sort of thing. It’s like they’re really proficient at keeping people alive, the mechanical systems, whether it’s like cars and trucks or the human body. So when it comes to their businesses, letting their technical excellence rather than their social skills promote their business, because that’s where they’re naturally good at.

Naomi Gora:       And they’re usually really, really technically proficient in the things that they choose to do. So I know like of a business like they make knives, like really beautiful, they’re the best knives that you’d ever make, but this person is an introvert. They don’t want to step out into the real world. They don’t want themselves to be known. They’re quite private, but when they talk about the technical proficiency of their products, people can’t help but listen.

Stacey Brown Randall:          That’s awesome. Okay. Who’s our next group?

Naomi Gora:       Hey, so we’re moving on to the next group, which is the traditionalists. These are people that are like steeped in tradition. They love family tradition. Their businesses are often tied to their family. So in this group, we have ISTJs who I call the rock. They are just the most reliable, structured people that you will ever come across. Often, I see these types of family owned businesses or franchises.

Naomi Gora:       So franchises can really work well for an ISTJ, because they love implementing systems. So the branding, the how we are going to be different, that’s all taken care of by the bigger system. And then, they can just come in and run it smoothly, consistently every day and make their money. So if you are an ISTJ making your own business, what I see for them is if they’re setting up their own brand, it’s that they don’t really accentuate their point of difference enough. So that’s what we do when we are working with an ISTJ brand. We try and help them communicate that structure reliability, but also really pull out that point of difference for them.

Stacey Brown Randall:          That’s great. Okay. And who else is a traditionalist?

Naomi Gora:       So then, we’ve got ESFJs, who we call the humble host. So these are like the cheerleaders of the world. They have incredible social networks, while introverts maybe might have two or three around them and they’re really close to, and they’re like, “Oh, I’m feeling like overwhelmed at people.”

Naomi Gora:       These are the people that know everybody in their community. And somehow managed to be friends with them all, while us introverts are going, “How do you even do that?” So their businesses thrive through their networks. So the number one trap I see of these people is sort of trying to please everyone. So their businesses can get weighed down by people pleasing and sort of feeling put upon, because they’re trying to meet so many people’s different needs. So when it comes to running their business, it’s really putting some boundaries around win-win situations. Like, yes, you want your customers to win and your suppliers to win, but also make sure you are winning too.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, that’s so good. These are so great. Okay. Cool. Let’s talk about the number one traps for our last group. Who’s our last group?

Naomi Gora:       Okay. So the ISFJs, the last one in the traditionalists. So they’re often caregivers. Again-

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, wait, wait. Hold on. Is there three in traditionalists?

Naomi Gora:       Yes. There’s three in traditionalists. Yes.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, what’s the third? I’m sorry.

Naomi Gora:       This is the last one of traditionalists. Yes. This is a third one in traditionalists. They’re the caregivers. They’re quite introverted. But they will look after everyone. So what I see them doing is business is not fighting for themselves enough. So they won’t stand up and promote themselves. They sort of hide in the background, which is fine to do, but it’s just letting their business and help getting their brand to help them have a bit more of a voice, because they’re the number one people that will stand up and fight for others, but not themselves.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh yeah. And I can see how that, when you’re trying to grow your own business, we always should come at life in business from the how can we help others? But when you’re running a business, there are decisions you have to be willing to make that it’s going to be for the business’ benefit. And in that case, that means it’s for your benefit and you have to sometimes make those hard calls. And I can imagine it’s a lot harder for those that feel as if their number one driver is with helping other people.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. Yeah. It really can… And that’s their natural way of being and they should absolutely be like that it’s just putting some boundaries and systems in place to make sure it’s also profitable and their energy is looked after.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yes. Absolutely. Okay. Great. Who’s our next group?

Naomi Gora:       So now we’ve got the change maker. So these are the INTJs, INFJs, and ENFJs in business. So I’ll start with the, INTJ. These are the master strategists. These people could run businesses really, really well. They’re like just incredibly intelligent people. They can look to the future and know what needs to happen to make something run properly. But they’re usually the people that sort of like to hide in the background. Like I guess if you think of like a strategist in the old days of movies with Kings and Queens, he’d be the strategist on the side that’s sort of like making the King his puppet, in a way.

Naomi Gora:       But what I’ve seen so much in business when they have come to me is sometimes because of the cognitive functions they’re used. So authenticity is in the backseat of their car. So these people can make anything happen, but what I’ve found when they come to me is they’re making these outcomes happen, but that actually not checking in with themselves to see if it’s what they’ve actually wanted to do. So of all the INTJs that have come to me, once we go through the personality typing, and then I help them look at their core values in depth, all of them have come back going, “I don’t want to run this business.”

Naomi Gora:       So I had a person that was running a skincare, a big skincare brand and when we went through this. He was like, “I actually want to just go and teach yoga. I want to step away from this and teach yoga.” There was another person that was running this big company and he wanted to become a day trader to step away in his… They’re introverted. He wanted to be by himself and just run the numbers. They love running numbers and strategies.

Naomi Gora:       Another one was a big corporate trainer who went away and became an art teacher. So these people, so the INTJs, it’s good for them to check in to make sure what they’re achieving is actually meeting their core values and what they want out of life.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So good. So good.

Naomi Gora:       Cool. And then, the next one is the INFJ. We call the catalyst. These are the world changers in terms of getting down to individual people. So you often see them as healthcare, like acupuncture, counseling. They can sometimes be in corporate communications, but these people are really good at holding space for others. So what they need to remember is to manage their own energy and protect their own energy while they’re holding space for others.

Naomi Gora:       And also, these people usually go really in depth. They will come up with a system to help the world that has many, many layers. And I see them wanting to hold onto their information. Like if I give my information away, nobody will work with me. But actually if they give all their information away, what they’re doing is help setting up people to be prepared to come and work with them. Because usually what they’re teaching can’t be, or it can be done by themselves, by others. But it’s their role is to help people along the way and sort of give them the accountability and the feedback to make this big in depth system that they created work.

Naomi Gora:       So for INFJs, it’s like don’t be afraid to give away your information. Let that be your marketing tool. So then, people come to you and they go, “I’m ready. I know every… I know your theory and your systems and how in depth it is, and I’m ready to work with you.”

Stacey Brown Randall:          That is so great. That’s awesome. Okay. Cool. We’re not done yet. We got to keep going.

Naomi Gora:       Then, we’ve got the ENFJs, who we call them mentor. They often want to create bigger cultural change, but because of their cognitive functions they use, they lead with the cognitive function of harmony, which is meeting everybody’s needs. And what this can look like is they’ve got this hidden in a rebel, that really wants to speak out and make a difference in some sort of cause in some way, but they don’t want to offend anyone.

Naomi Gora:       So often what I see ENFJs need to do is to sort of drop their good girl mask or their good person mask, if they’re a male, because ENFJ should be male or female, and step into being themselves and sort of releasing that in a rebel a bit and trusting that they will find their tribe of people rather than wanting to keep everybody happy.

Stacey Brown Randall:          So I totally understand it from that personality perspective of not necessarily having your brand represent who exactly you are, because it could offend, right?

Naomi Gora:       Yes.

Stacey Brown Randall:          It offend or turn off other people. And then, there’s something to be said for… But that’s you do not want to attract all the people.

Naomi Gora:       No.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Nobody can attract all the people into their business anyway. So you should be attracting the ones that you ultimately want to attract. So now let’s talk about our last group, the life seekers.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. Life seekers. They’re the ones that want to squeeze every good moment out life. So we’re starting with the ENFP. I call the ENFP the BFF, because in business, they just want everybody to succeed. They see everybody’s potential, and they want everyone to win. Their brilliant, creative problem solvers. When it comes to building their business, they brand in terms of like what logos and colors they have doesn’t matter so much, because often they are their brand.

Naomi Gora:       So if they spent their money on making some really great videos or having in-person conversations with people, that’s going to work a lot better for them to build their business, rather than getting hung up on what colors and logos and fonts they want, because they are just so charismatic that people aren’t even going to care. So the number one thing that I see them falling into the trap of is feeling like they have to be have it all together.

Naomi Gora:       So these types may have been told that, I think we spoke about in the first session that they may have been told that they’d forget their head if it wasn’t screwed on or they never follow through with things. But this is because their driver process is called exploration. It’s all about exploring new ideas, novelty, seeing, experiencing all the things in the world to create new patterns so they can do their problem solving.

Naomi Gora:       So the opposite of this is routine and structure. So if they’re trying to problem solve and meet the needs of the people and be people’s friend and coach them, if they’re going to into that space of like, “Oh, now I’ve got to follow up and write this proposal and now I’ve got to do the admin and I’ve got to check all these boxes and tick all these things.” That takes them out of their genius state and actually reduces the successfulness of their business. So it’s like, “Don’t feel bad about doing that. It’s okay for them to get their team to do that and set up systems where they’re not stuck in that day to day routine of running a business.”

Stacey Brown Randall:          And I think that’s so important for people to recognize how much of the day to day routine is involved in running a business.

Naomi Gora:       It is.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Right? And then, being… They do not. You do your bookkeeping.

Naomi Gora:       I didn’t realize.

Stacey Brown Randall:          I know. You do your bookkeeping one month and then you realize you got to do it 12 months out of the year. You’ll be like, “How quickly can I outsource this out?” Right?

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yes. There’s so much that, and I think it’s important for people to recognize that there’s not necessarily anything wrong or wrong with you that you don’t enjoy this part of your business. But that it doesn’t mean isn’t going to actually ultimately happen.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. But it’s-

Stacey Brown Randall:          But you still got to make it happen, I guess is my point.

Naomi Gora:       Yeah. You’ve still got to make it happen or either, so you can… You’ve still got to make it happen or you can look at how you can cut things out or make it simpler or who can support you to do it or sometimes it’s even just knowing that you’re going to hate it, and then allowing yourself more time for the good stuff, going, “I know I’m going to hate, there’s nothing wrong with me. I’ve got to get it done. And then I can go back to my good things.” So there’s a lot of ways you can deal with those things.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Yes. Absolutely. Okay. Cool. Who else do we have in life seekers?

Naomi Gora:       We have the ANTP, who I call the revolutionary. So they’re really open-minded people. They’re really curious. They’re big self-educators, and I often see them running information businesses. So what they’re really brilliant at doing is taking loads of information, complex information, and then sort of sifting through it and making it simpler for the rest of us, I guess, or making it simpler to understand, and also easier to use.

Naomi Gora:       So taking these really complex things and going, “This how you can use this. I understand it and use it to make your life better.” So they have these information products. So the thing, the number one pitfall I find for them is that, again, with this routine side of business is them feeling like they’re having to be beholden to a system so that they’re stuck in the routines or the structures of making their businesses happen. So again, it’s getting that support so they can be and they’re often brilliant content creators.

Naomi Gora:       So they can be content creating, and then passing onto VAs going, “Now, can you put this in the system or in my course, teachable…” Whether they’re using teachable or whatever the platform they’re using. “Can you guys put that in there?” And when it comes to their brand, again, it’s the information that matters. So they don’t need to get too hung up on what colors look good or what their logo looks like. If their information is solid and their copywriting is good and it communicates to people, they will just really touch people’s hearts with how much they can help them.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, that makes so much sense. It’s funny like you say some of the things that can be like how they operate, and then that’s like you’re just saying how they naturally operate and what works well for them. And before you even talk about what their trap is, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, how do they live like that? How do they run their business like that?” I would go bananas. Because obviously, that’s not my personality type. Right?

Naomi Gora:       Exactly.

Stacey Brown Randall:          But just you gets so, so fascinating. Okay. Cool. Is there anybody else in the life seekers group?

Naomi Gora:       We’ve got two left.

Stacey Brown Randall:          All right.

Naomi Gora:       We’ve the ESFP, who I call the entertainer. These are the people like they thrive on social media. These are the people that jump onto social media and their hair is perfect and they’re completely manicure and they look like they live this amazing life. And you’re like, “I would need to spend eight hours a day to make myself look like that, let alone be on social media every day, looking like that.” They just have amazing aesthetic abilities.

Stacey Brown Randall:          If anyone’s wondering, that is not my personality. Okay. Moving on. Keep going. What’s their trap?

Naomi Gora:       So their trap is often, so their brands are usually very visual. So beautiful photos, beautiful artwork. If they’ve got a product business, their product photos are beautiful. So they can get sometimes get a bit caught up in that aesthetic or in the moment of things and forget to check in with themselves to see if this business is actually fulfilling them.

Naomi Gora:       So it can sort of end up being like, “Yeah. This looks beautiful, but have I got a meaning attached to it? Is it something that I can run for the next 20 years or is this just something sort of pretty for now?” So the trap that they fall into is sort of not looking at that long term planning and checking in with themselves to go, “Can I do this? Can I be fulfilled doing this for a long period of time?”

Stacey Brown Randall:          That’s awesome. Okay. And our last one.

Naomi Gora:       And final, the ESTP is the showman. These people, these guys like they’re in the moment. They lead with a cognitive function called sensation. So, which is they use five senses like they’re in present, in the moment, in the physical world and when they run businesses, they’re usually businesses that are larger than life. Like if they might be like have a technical business and they come out with these brilliant shows and they wow the people and people just can’t wait to be part of their business, because they’ve put on this amazing, fantastically, sensory in depth show that just really captured them and made them feel alive.

Naomi Gora:       So they’re charismatic. They’re usually great sales people. But again, sometimes they don’t have a long range plan. So if you think of businesses and brands, like the ESTP, you know the guys that make those movies Jackass?

Stacey Brown Randall:          Oh, yes.

Naomi Gora:       They can sort of be like it’s a great show and it’s in the moment and people love them. They don’t sort of think about the future. They’re like, “What can we do now to be just really awesome and make everyone feel really alive?” But sometimes they don’t think of the longer term consequences. So it’s like having someone in their team that can go, “Okay, but how can you make this into a long term, sustainable business while you’re doing all this amazing showmanship and sales type stuff?”

Stacey Brown Randall:          Well, that’s awesome. So I think this is so fascinating how you’re looking at these 16 personality types that are kind from the Myers Briggs, but then how you’re categorizing them into these like five overalls because of the things that they have in common in terms of the CAR model of like how they run their business. But then us getting to spend a little bit of time for each one of them going through and talking about the trap that they can sometimes fall into when growing their business, which I think is so important, because as business owners, our ability to have self-awareness is so very important to us, not only being successful in business, but enjoying it while we’re being successful.

Naomi Gora:       Yes. That’s the thing. Yeah. You don’t want to go into business and go… Often people have this big dream and when the reality sets in, there’s sort of this deflating moment of like, “Oh, I had this dream, but this is the reality.” But it’s about having that self-awareness and not letting that get you down, but just pivoting a little and going, “How can I make this more me and how can I really increase my chances of success and happiness?”

Stacey Brown Randall:          Absolutely. Okay. So remind everybody again, where can they go? What is the link that they can go and take this assessment and learn a more about their per personality type, and then, of course, more about you as well?

Naomi Gora:       Absolutely. Its www.brandwhisperers.com.au.

Stacey Brown Randall:          All right. That’s awesome. So that’s where they can go and they can take the assessment. So guys, if you didn’t take it last week and you’re sitting here and we’re going through each of these four letter codes and you’re like, “Wait, which am I and what’s my trap and how should I be growing my business?” You’re going to need to go take the assessment, unless you remember right from days ago, if you took the Myers Briggs years and years ago, like I did and you needed to take it again because you couldn’t remember.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Definitely go and take it so you can apply it as you’re listening to not only this episode, but last week’s episode, episode 198, in addition to this week’s episode. I’ll, of course, link to Naomi’s website where you can take the personality assessment in the show notes for this episode as well. And that is episode 199. So that would be staceybrownrandall.com/199. That’s the show links page. So thank you, again, Naomi so much for joining us for this two-parter. I really appreciate it.

Naomi Gora:       Oh, thank you so much for having me. It’s been wonderful.

Stacey Brown Randall:          I would love for you to share your thoughts on these two episodes. Last week’s episode, episode 198, this week’s episode, episode 199. I would love for you to share your thoughts on these two episodes and the interviews that we did with Naomi on your personality type. And that means the type of category you fall into as a business owner. And of course, the trap that could hurt you in growing and running your business.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Of course, you can find everything we’ve talked about in this episode in the show notes page at staceybrownrandall.com/199. That’s for episode 199 and Stacey has an E. All right, coming up next week. Yes. It’s the big enchilada in my mind. It’s episode 200. Woohoo. We’re going to do a celebration. I am very, very excited for episode 200. You are not going to want to miss this episode. I’m so excited to celebrate hitting 200 episodes.

Stacey Brown Randall:          I’m just personally proud of myself for committing to this podcast and knowing that if I made the commitment, I was probably going to do it for a very long time. And here I am multiple of years later and still doing it and doing it every single week. Dropping a new episode every Tuesday for the last 200 weeks. It feels like a stinking, amazing accomplishment. I’m just going to put it out there and brag on myself for a second. But I hope you’ve also been enjoying all the episodes that you’ve listened to. If you’re a long time listener and you’re like, “I remember back when you did episode 1 or 10.” I love you.

Stacey Brown Randall:          Thank you for continuing to be a listener. And if you’re a new listener of the podcast, I’m so glad you’re here. I’m so glad that you stumbled upon or were referred to this podcast and you’ve started listening. Hopefully, it is a part of your weekly rotation of all the fabulous podcasts that you listen to. And I love knowing that I get to show up in your earbuds or through your car radio or however you listen to your favorite podcast. That I get to show up and I get to help you think about growing your business, specifically from a referral perspective, but we talk about other things too. And I’m so excited to celebrate my 200th episode with you and we’ve got something special planned. So don’t miss it. So okay, until then, take control and grow your business. Bye for now.

Thanks for listening to the Roadmap to Grow Your Business podcast. To
access all resources and links mentioned in today’s show, and to
connect with Stacey, head over to www.staceybrownrandall.com.

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